I really need to stop putting it off and install Linux on my PC and laptops
Yes, exactly.
(Kinda unrelated side note: Nobody around me is getting that all these apps are STUPID and MAKES YOU THE PRODUCT. Just why are they critisizing without even trying them?)
I’m between living locations and can’t carry my desktop around.
So I grabbed an old laptop and put Linux mint on it. It’s been near perfect. Extremely smooth experience.
It detected my printer and auto installed. I installed steam and played Terraria without issue. Small performance problem but I don’t have a GPU. Even works good with my docking station.
My only complaint is the audio device doesn’t switch automatically when I dock/undock.
I’d recommend making a USB and boot into it for a test drive.
Awesome, thanks for the insight. I was actually looking at Linux Mint myself. I need around 4Gb on a USB to boot it, correct?
How many laptops do you own lol?
Families exist. I’m the “IT guy” for 3 people using laptops
They are all my personal laptops from different parts of my past, that I just never threw away when I upgraded
If you keep forgetting them for another ~15-25 more years they might have value in the retro space.
Shadow retirement fund
That’s reasonable; I just wouldn’t have called my wife’s laptop my laptop I guess. It was either that or there was probably an interesting story behind it.
I end up with all the “broken” laptops my family replaces after they buy new ones.
I’ve got like 9 laptops. Active ones are my Linux one, work one (windows 11) and my wife’s school one (windows 11). We both have win 10 desktops still.
2, though they are both quite old
I always find it odd that posts like this get any downvotes at all. Like, are people really that in love with Windows and or Microsoft?
It’s because we’ve seen this post 1000 times
and yet you persist. why?
(sorry, this is totally a troll)
It’s because LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX
GNU! GNU!
Because mass recommending Linux to people with absolutely no nuance whatsoever is exactly why Linux users are seen as obnoxious and annoying. Not only does the website make no attempt to properly explain Linux it doesn’t clearly outline its usecase. Its the very definition of the Linux user stereotype, blasted right in front of your face, reposted everywhere, and with a simple INSTALL LINUX and EVEYONE CAN INSTALL LINUX.
The first paragraphs on https://endof10.org/ tell you why you should install Linux followed by telling you how to get in touch with someone who can explain things to you and even install it for you. Most of them do it free of charge. I’m not sure how you can improve on that.
Because the people that would or can switch would already switch after it’s been posted for the 1000th time. It’s not realistic because the vast majority of people simply don’t care. People hate windows updates enough as it is, to most average people this is good news.
Not caring is why these corporations have the power they do.
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Perhaps if you ran Linux you’d be less crankyyyyy
later edit : I hope this message was interpreted for the tongue in cheek that it was
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That’s not the flex you think it is.
Your preoccupation with image here hurts you more than it helps you.
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Not that I have a strong opinion one way or the other but Linux people’s lack of self awareness or discretion has hurt its spread more than Microsoft has.
Having a teensyweensy bit of occupation with image goes a really long way
Putting Bill Gates’ dick in my mouth is far too high of a licensing fee. I’ll just play Oregon Trail on an Apple IIe instead. But no judgment. You live your best life.
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Honestly yes, this entire campaign is absolutely stupid.
It’s getting downvoted because it’s not realistic.
I thought so too, largely on the basis of some very bad experiences with ubuntu-based distributions (they seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for whatever reason), but in frustration I tried one last time to install a linux distro and went with something based on fedora and it has 95% just worked, it’s been great. I haven’t booted up windows in almost 3 weeks, all my games work (battle.net was a bit of a pain to get working), the proprietary windows software I use for work runs great in wine, etc. I’m at the point now where I’m transferring all my files off of NTFS partitions and reformatting them to btrfs and integrating them into the linux filesystem, cause I’m done with windows forever to the greatest possible extent that I can be.
I am greatful that Ubuntu ended up bringing the Linux desktop into the general publics eye, but at the same time out of all of the popular distro’s today, I firmly believe there is always a better choice than Ubuntu for any user, new or veteran. It’s just a pity that they are the most well known to people who aren’t familiar with Linux while not being good at anything, although basically any Linux distro feels like fresh air when compared to the Microsoft experience.
Agreed. New users often either go Ubuntu or Linux Mint because they’re well known, but really aren’t the best options out there anymore.
Why is that? What’s the problem with ubuntu? I mean ubuntu-based distros seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for some reason, but besides that. I’m pretty happy with nobara tho, and wouldn’t switch back to ubuntu even if I knew it’d work with my GPU.
Nvidia Linux drivers are still kinda iffy these days but so are the Windows ones too
It was definitely a Ubuntu thing - Pop, 2 version of Ubuntu, and Mint all failed at various points when dealing with GPU drivers, but I’m using closed-source nvidia drivers on the same GPU in Nobara (Fedora) without issue. Though I guess I haven’t tried updating it yet, but all my hardware accelerated games work as they should.
I’ve had windows update disabled for years so the fact that it’s “end of life” don’t mean shit to me. It’ll keep chugging along for years more.
That said, I installed Mint a week ago and love it!
EOL means no more security updates, which means attack vectors don’t get patched.
If you keep using a Windows installation (or any OS for that matter) that isn’t patched regularly you are very likely to be victim to some malicious actor eventually. It’s not manual hacking anymore, it’s bots scraping the whole internet exploiting known vulnerabilities completely automated.
The risk is much lower if you’re in a home network with NAT, where your PCs IP is not publicly reachable, but if you communicate with any webservices you’re still vulnerable.
As example. If you nowadays put a Windows XP machine live on the internet with a public IP, it will be compromised within minutes.
So yeah. Good call switching to Mint, but please don’t use unpatched Windows.
I saw a YT video about XP being compromised. It was literally about 2-3 minutes, and it had been attacked.
Yeah, we managed to recreate that in a lab. Those old OS’s are super vulnerable.
This is what 0patch is for!
Mint was my first Linux OS, and it’s been really nice.
Not my first, but the one I landed on after years. It’s just so good.
Can’t wait for the “The end of Windows 11 is approaching…” article in a few years. Keep me posted.
Windows 12, with AI even moreso integrated.
Nah, there’ll be a new boogeyman by then.
Installed Linux Mint a few months ago and have been dual booting. Hardly use Windows at all now.
Linux is exactly what an OS should be.
The end of windows 10 support is approaching. Windows 10 will go on for a while yet.
I just rage-downgraded back to 10 a couple days ago. is there any reason why I shouldn’t just keep using it after this year? are we ever going to see a risk for zero day exploits for it like happened for XP after it depreciated?
Just look up windows related cves. There’s like 10 new exploits almost every month or so. Sure, not all of them will be super critical, but as time goes on they will stack up. I would not want to risk it, but you do you.
Consider running the LTSC version. It gets extended support.
I’ve been migrating some of my clients (I do on site support for SMBs) to LTSC 2019, which gets updates until 2029. An added benefit is that it gets a lot less updates, essentially security updates, and comes with a lot less crap preinstalled.
If one were to run Win10 Enterprise LTSC IoT, “activated”… would it continue to automatically receive updates?
ESU also offers one year of support for non-enterprise users for $30.
is there any reason why I shouldn’t just keep using it after this year?
You mean aside from all the reasons not to use Windows that applied even before deprecation? 'Cause there are a fuck-ton of those.
Unironically, yes. I was already aware of those and take them into account
I’ve been a full time dev since 2012 and needed a Mac, I had barely used windows over that time but beforehand ran a PC service business.
Anyway, Ive been using Linux as a daily driver for the past 6 months for reasons.
… The other day I got a new cheap laptop I needed to setup for run a single application.
Holy fuck what a shitshow.
It took me 2 hours just to get to the desktop. Shit didn’t work, bullshit login screens, ads everywhere.
It was a massive pile of dog shit.
After battling to get the system setup for the rest of the day I gave up, chucked Fedora Kinoite On it… Took 30 minutes from creating boot media to getting a desktop going, chucked the app I needed to run in a Flatpack, chucked it on a USB, and it was up and running.
No bullshit.
Just works.
Truly the year of the Linux desktop.
I’m guessing the cheap laptop was running Windows? You didn’t mention, it sounds at first like you’re saying you were using Linux on it.
What ads were everywhere? Why did it “take 2 hours to get to the desktop” - you mean, that’s how long it took to install or something?
If you find yourself not wanting to switch, there are third party options for patching. I’m going to try zero patch, but I have no experience with them to date.
Also 0patch, which will continue to provide security patches for Windows 10 indefinitely.
GF recently wanted to buy Ms office because she had a nice looking CV template for it that would not work well in LibreOffice. So I spent some hours making a good one without Ms crap, just so they would not get anymore money.
Pretty sure the template would work fine with OnlyOffice.
I just rebuilt mine and can confirm that most of those resume template builders utilize a lot of word doc “hacks” to format everything, and loading and LibreOffice breaks it.
I don’t understand how can critical buisness machines which work perfectly fine be switched to windows 11?
We have a machine at work which is beefy and works as a server and backups for many many years on windows 10. Why the hell should I upgrade my buisness critical system ?? Why would I take my risk breaking stuff. I am sure there are millions of critical systems running gon windows 10 which should not be distribed at any means, what would Microsoft do about them.
Your business critical system will no longer be supported with security updates which will leave it vulnerable to attack.
I guess, if it’s not connected to any sort of outside network, and has no way of accepting data from media like discs or thumb drives then it’s perfectly safe, but if that’s the case, and it works in isolation, how “business critical” is it?
You would be amazed in the industrial world. There are tons of large and incredibly expensive special purpose machines that are operated by super antiquated PC architecture computers running geriatric operating systems, sometimes still even DOS or Windows 3.x.
Think industrial CNC mills and lathes, presses, pick-and-place machines, specialty lab testing equipment, electron microscopes, etc.
Process control, i.e. production line automation, is usually driven by dedicated PLCs. But the user interfaces connected to them are almost invariantly some old ruggedized panel mounted PC running Windows. An absurd number of them in my experience are still on 2000 or XP. NT4 is pretty easy to find, too.
Granted often these are not networked, and in cases where they are they’re not connected to the internet, or may even talk to other workstations via RS-485 serial (!) or some other gimcrack method that is unlikely to be a vector for modern malware.
As long as they aren’t networked, there’s no problem there!
Critically, the people who build these machines don’t typically update drivers to port them to a new OS. You buy a piece of heavy equipment, investing tens, or maybe even a hundred thousand dollars, and there’s an OS it works on, maybe two if you’re lucky. The equipment hopefully works for at least 20 years, and basically no OS is going to maintain that kind of compatibility for that long. Linux might get the closest, but I’ll bet you’re compiling/patching your own kernels before 20 years is up.
This kind of dynamic is unavoidable when equipment vendors sell equipment which has a long usable life (which is good), and don’t invest in software support (which is them being cheap, to an extent), and OSes change enough that these time horizons likely involve compatibility-breaking releases.
Hahahahahaha, I still periodically see win2k/2k3 on the network at some clients, with SMBv1 enabled across the domain to make the CISO’s eye twitch
back in 2017, the company I worked at had a win 2K server. Crazy shit. It was for a critical system (ran the phone system)
Fucking phone systems! That’s what these are, and we have to snap them any time they’re rebooted because sometimes they just shut the bed randomly, but the client doesn’t want to buy a new system…
But, it’s their wallet and they’re willing to pay the “fuck you pay me” legacy surcharge.
If you are running business critical applications on Windows 10 that is a problem. Windows 10 is only meant for end user machines. Other services should be running on OS’s that are meant for the application such as Windows Server or server versions of Linux distros running LTS kernels.
Not to mention, near every piece of software I’ve been involved with at work has required specific versions of Windows Server and whatever database it uses, if you want to upgrade the software you use, then upgrading the OS is part of the task.
We have a machine at work which is beefy and works as a server and backups for many many years on windows 10. Why the hell should I upgrade my buisness critical system ??
Because you should be using a server grade os instead of janking things together with desktop OS installs that just make everything so much harder (and aren’t supported for as long).
Sorry, I have to clean up installs like this at least once a year when we take on clients from internal IT that just made things work instead of making something that works right, so I’ve got opinions.
What Microsoft probably expects you to do is get your management to buy new computers that support Windows 11 and/or whatever the hell their current server OS is, and in the process give them and their hardware vendor partners a lot of money.
What you can do instead is switch to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC which is what I did at my workplace recently. It’s supported until 2032 with security updates. Not feature updates, but I suspect that business users probably don’t care about those much. In fact, most people would probably treat that as a benefit. It also comes with basically no bloatware (except goddamned Edge), which is surprising. No Copilot, no Cortana, no Recall. None of that shit.
We have a fleet of machines that “can’t” be upgraded to Win11 because of hardware shortcomings, at least without overriding the requirements with Rufus or similar. Unfortunately we also rely on a small but important spread of proprietary Windows-only applications which have no open source or Linux replacements, and at least two of them absolutely will not run in Wine. Believe me, I tried.
The only wrinkle with this is that you cannot upgrade or license swap in place. You have to do a full reinstall, which for us is not a problem because we have a modest number of computers and I have physical access to all of them. None are bricked up behind a wall or anything.
For that use Windows 10 IOT LTSC
The obvious conclusion is that Windows 10 is not fit for purpose in your business environment and the person in charge of IT procurement dun goofed picking it in the first place.
I don’t know what kind of software that particular machine runs, but for server and backup Linux appears to be the go to tool. I’m not saying that you have to migrate everything to Linux. I just say that for servers and the like the transition is probably easier than for desktop.
Because either way you’re taking a risk.
Security flaws and aging hardware are two obvious problems.
I’d very much question why you’d use windows 10 over something better supported— maybe not Linux but at least Windows Server OS.
Their answer would probably be to run Windows Server 2022, which is supported until 2031.
The problem is that Microsoft is ending Win10 support so you won’t be able to get updates and such (especially security updates) for the OS anymore which will ultimately lead to things breaking or being vulnerable anyway, plus if that business-critical software ever gets updated to the point where it also doesn’t support win10 anymore (I’ve run into this in the past with XP/Vista) then you’re going to have to change anyway. But you don’t have to change to win11. Companies and governments all over Europe are switching their mission-critical systems to linux and FOSS, yeah it’s a pain, but it’s going to save you pain down the road.
Why should the financial sector ever switch away from their amazing COBOL code base? Why should anyone switch away from VGA, works just fine? No need for USB, PS2 etc. work just fine.
It’s not all quite as rosy.
Yes, Linux is much more capable now than it was 10 years ago and it’s much more capable of being used as a main system. I myself have been using Linux as my main system for a few years now.
But it’s also a fact that a lot of stuff might not work (even if it works for someone else) and that some things are still more difficult than they should be.
For example, on my laptop cannot wake from sleep since kernel 6.11. I have manually sourced a 6.10 from an older version of my distro and keep holding it back, so that I can use my laptop as a laptop. For someone without technical skill, this would mean that their laptop just can’t sleep any more. Hibernate also doesn’t work.
Another example is that LibreOffice still makes a lot of formatting mistakes when it has to open word documents. And sure, everyone could just switch to odf, but it’s not quite as easy to make everyone else switch to odf. It makes it really hard to use LibreOffice in any kind of professional environment. Wouldn’t want to make a powerpoint presentation that then looks like shit when it’s played on a different PC.
Lastly, Nvidia sucks, but it’s also close to the only option for laptops with dGPUs. When I look for laptops with dGPUs available in my area on a price comparison platform, I find 760 laptops with Nvidia GPUs and only 3 with AMD, all of which are priced at least €500 more than comparable Nvidia devices. So if you want to go for a gaming laptop, Nvidia is pretty much the only option, and under Linux it really sucks. Steam games generally work ok for me, but trying to use Heroic Launcher to play anything from my gigantic library of free Epic/Amazon/GoG games, about 10% of the games I tried actually work. And even with those that work, my laptop sometimes just decides that a slide show with 3 FPS is good enough. That stays even after reboots and resets, and after a few days it returns to normal. Only to go back to slideshow mode a few days later.
If you just use your laptop to run a browser, I can recommend Linux 100%.
If you want to do anything else and don’t have any technical skills and/or don’t want to spend hours fixing things that should just work, I can’t fully recommend it.
I am a developer and Linux is my native environment in production systems. I wanted to use Linux on my laptop but sleeping / waking up never worked well enough. It could not switch from integrated video card to a discrete one ending up always using the discrete one which drained the battery in 30 minutes. All in all, it was usable but the details didn’t work so I gave up. That was years ago and eversince no customer really allows Linux…
What is the highest spec pc I am likely to find for sale when people realise it cant go to windows 11?
Unless the requirements have changed, you’re looking at 2016-2017 era. Intel 7000-series, AMD Ryzen 1000-series. Newer may be available if there’s no TPM installed.
I had a look and it looks like you will not get anything special. The cutoff is around 2015. So for example Lenovo T440s will support Win11 but T440p will not. Looking at backmarket T440s is cheaper than T440p. So looks like you will only be able to get something ancient and the price will be pretty standard.
TMP 2.0 released in October 2014, so I don’t think that you can find particularly powerful systems up for grabs.
