Ah, my friend… I wish I were so romantic as I’ve misled you to believe. Admittedly I’m only prone to fits of it. You are, of course, correct about the need to find a neutral ground that is less prone to bias and more fit for consumption. Lately, I’ve been struck by the need to feel my humanity and express it, wildly. I’m just making the mistake of believing that an honest presentation is enough to convince others that it’s a worthwhile endeavor, meanwhile being reckless in the attempt. A ‘rage against the dying of the light’, if you will allow.

I’m generally more as you self describe. I feel it would almost be too daring to say ‘a classical stoic’, not this new age stigma ridden thin veneer over cynicism with an edgy ‘I don’t give a shit’ attitude. So, apologies if you feel slightly offended at the suggestion we are alike in that way. As for depressing and boring; I don’t think that at all. Having that mental space --detached and analytic-- offers great benefits in introspection, self realization, critical thought, and enables me to safely empathize when it makes sense to do so.

I would like to think that I value your discussion on these topics more than you yet realize. I had an excellent philosophy teacher.

That’s the thing, though. I don’t need to get lost in the nuance and come out of the other side as a ‘realist’ or a cynic. The cold calculation of incalculation… the idea that because we are not perfect judges, we should not judge at all, is sinister enough that it even has a meme: Letting perfect be the enemy of good.

When I do selfless acts - and I believe I have, if my act is seen as an act to my own benefit or with ulterior motive: I feel harmed and wish to withdraw. Why would I reason to live with the burden of seeing the world as so purely black and white that the only good that can come from it is beyond my recognition; because I too must be black and white or risk being an imperfect judge?

I’m not going to tell someone that their willingness to donate a kidney is anything less than altruistic just because there’s ‘emotional baggage’ or they don’t self ascribe properly… I’m simply willing to accept it as a good thing.

Just because the future is unknowable doesn’t relieve me of the burden or responsibility of making active choices that I feel make a positive difference, even if I can’t foresee the outcomes. Should the man that saved Hitler’s life from a crowd of angry people feel responsible for everything that Hitler did after the fact? Can I now cynically use that thought to help no one at all, so that I don’t run the risk of saving the next Hitler? Yet do these same cynics that claim humans only work in self interest not go on to complain that so many are passive bystanders to horrific events? It’s self defeating. I’d rather not be a bystander, because I feel a sense of duty to not be an enabler.

Finally, I don’t have a need to sanitize my discussions from all emotions. I don’t think that’s productive so long as the emotions are genuine and an honest reflection of my state of being.

A sincere thank you for your response. I hope my response is received as well as I intend.

You mean… mothers breastfeeding feeding their children? You mean men who find big rocks and throw them into water from heights to make a big splash? Do you mean people who donate their organs to other people? Do you mean the many artists, scientists, teachers, and basically everyone else that gets their ass out of bed every day to then put a smile on their face for other people, despite feeling existential despair inside because the last shred of reason for being has been invested in someone or something else, so they keep moving? Robin Williams?

I think we have very different ideas of what self-interest is. Namely, I think that you have confused the idea that one must suffer, or at least feel nothing, or it’s not altruistic enough. That one should not enjoy acts of love, kindness, caring, giving, art, exploration… or they’re secretly solipsistic. This isn’t the condemnation of the world you think it is. This feels like a projection of an internal insecurity onto the greater portion of humanity.

I think most people have been guilty of thinking this at some point. Rather than feel threatened by my words or that I’m being critical of you and only you, I would ask that you do what I did when I once thought this very thought… think on if you’re really willing to live the rest of your lived experience with this thought at the forefront. Not everyone gets this one right, but it could have consequences on your ability to actually ‘enjoy’ another human being without needing something from them to do so.

That sounds kind of like a console, no?

Edit: I mean, if the intent is gaming and only gaming, it feels like there’s a lot of overlap. Only the PC would have less support for more freedom.

So, just to be clear, that ‘something that can’t be overcome’ is… checks notes capitalism?

There actually is an array in any POSIX shell. You get one array per file/function. It just feels bad to use it. You can abuse ‘set – 1 2 3 4’ to act as a proper array. You can then use ‘for’ without ‘in’ to iterate over it.

for i; do echo $i; done.

Use shift <number> to pop items off.

If I really have to use something more complex, I’ll reach for mkfifo instead so I can guarantee the data can only be consumed once without manipulating entries.

You lost me in the last sentence. I think what you said rings true with an exception. I don’t believe that the people you’re referencing will bother with learning how to care again. It would be a tacit admission that it was willful ignorance.

This one has been easy for me lately: They spell ‘lose’ as ‘loose’.

Excellent argument all around. I like that it stayed on point and didn’t devolve into something else entirely. I know you and I don’t necessarily agree, but I respect that you stood your ground and as a result, you as a person. I do feel that you could put more value into the demand-side of things, AKA, the consumer but there’s a bit of nuance there and we probably have different approaches that solve the same ideal. My follow on points would have been to argue that YouTube isn’t deserving of being given a social-contract of ethical conduct etc etc. I would also address that YouTube is central to some livelihoods and the financial well-being of others. I really wanted to highlight the sense of irony that I get that you would call a group of people crybabies and then feel personally attacked when someone took you to task and stood their ground on the counterpoint; however, I concede that if I had known you would have felt personally attacked I would have picked a softer tone and for that I apologize. I think we can both acknowledge that we’d only be arguing nuance at this point and that’s not a worthwhile use of our time. You sir (edit: or ma’am, or something in between, if it pleases), are not an NPC. (also edit; upvotes given for the statements except the original statement I disagreed with)

I feel respected because I grab the product I want, take it to the register, and pay for it and get the result that I expect based on what I paid. Marketing and manipulation aside, I acknowledge that’s part of being an educated consumer. I’d thank you for putting value in my response, but I’m not interested either.

Good points, 12 seems to be superior and I’ve changed my opinion.

And yet here we are. Yet again on Lemmy. Yet again with the crybabies wanting ad-free and cost-free shit without considering that someone somewhere has to pay for it. Google is not a charity.

I was tempted to state that I was wrong, clearly you have thought about this, but I don’t agree with this perspective at all and won’t be changing my opinion. If we’re in the business of calling things out that “nobody said,” then nobody said Google was a charity.

That’s how the free market works; nobody has a gun to your head.

The ‘nobody has a gun to your head’ approach to laissez-faire mercantilism likes to ignore how important free market access is. Lack of access can be just as bad as a gun to the head, if not sometimes worse. This is a one sided argument in favor of corporatism that doesn’t address access. The main thrust of my point.

I pay for premium. I’m happy to pay for content I enjoy and I’m happy that the creators I enjoy watching get a cut without me having to watch annoying adverts. I do not expect handouts. There is nothing “shitty” about paying for things.

I don’t think YouTube has ever left me feeling like it had any regard for me as a consumer or even valued my time. It appears, from the many complaints I’ve seen by YouTube content creators, that many of them don’t feel valued or respected either. By the time Premium came along it had long lost me as an interested customer. There’s no feeling that one should honor a one-sided social contract because that requires an actual relationship. If I felt that YouTube actually cared about anything other than being the middle-man that ensures that I get served ads, and demands–but not delivers–respect for it, then maybe I would reconsider. Until then, I will enjoy their competing products. Ad-Blockers and supporting alternative hosting sites that make me feel more valued. They’ve assisted in creating their own black-market for ad-avoidance, and that’s the free market working.

Maybe tone down the extremism and personal attacks against a stranger, huh?

🥱

Good counter-point, except that your local supermarket has to respect three separate market pressures that Google (edit: to be clear, I mean YouTube) clearly has no regard for:

• Tight regulations.
• Respecting its consumers.
• Robust competition that isn’t prone to monopolistic enterprise.

So no, I don’t feel that we should ‘fuck them, too I guess’ because when I go to the supermarket I feel like I’m the customer, not the product. I feel that I get what I’m paying for and that my time is respected. Nothing about YouTube leaves me feeling like that. There’s no sense that I’m a respected customer and therein no sense that there’s any value in trying to respect a clearly one-sided relationship.

Did YouTube make all of those videos? If not, then how much should YouTube get from hosting them? This whole argument that people just want free shit isn’t just wrong, it’s also annoying. People have proven time and again that we’re willing to pay for quality and convenience. And not in that order. Once again it’s an issue about access, how they’re fighting tooth and nail to gatekeep that access to continue to control the flow of capital so they can also play the kingmakers in digital media. Messages like yours are so off base that it’s hard to believe you’re not projecting your own shitty world view, but also somehow think that because you’ll gargle some shitty ads every once in a while that you have some moral high ground. AKA; one of those people who believe they’re right and that’s all that matters and you don’t actually have to think any deeper. PS: I hope I’m wrong. Please feel free to correct my own world view if I am.

I’m not experienced with RPN but at a glance think there’s a solid argument for it.

Base 16 is superior and once you learn binary math, easier to divide and multiply.